Volunqueers Ep 6: Nicky & Danny (Ecuador, 2023-2025)

Justin: For you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. For the freedom of man. For the freedom of man. Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of volunqueers, your LGBTQI RPCV podcast. I am your host, Justin Tabor. coming to you with what I think is going to be a very unique, very exciting, very informative episode of the podcast. before I introduce our guests, and we do have guests today, in a, in a deviation from our normal procedures, I want to talk a little bit about why this is a special episode. both. Well, mostly for me. Always for me. and always for me. as I’ve mentioned several times on the podcast, for five and a half years I worked as a, ah, placement officer at the Peace Corps headquarters. And, and in that role I interviewed over a thousand different people for Peace Corps service. And I got to hear their stories and why they wanted to serve. I met, a lot of really wonderful people, ah, and a lot of people who stood out for good reasons and many for bad reasons. and all throughout my time as a placement officer, one of the conversations going on was, how do we operationalize LGBT people into the Peace Corps? if I rewind back to my service, actually to go even farther back on my story. When I was a volunteer in 2011, I served and I was actually living with a person who, ah, was my boyfriend at the time in country. And because my country staff knew that we were living together in service. I got a call one day from our country director and she asked if I thought that Peace Corps Philippines could host a same sex couple if we were ready for that. Those were the conversations in 2011. and I said, based on what I’ve experienced, yes, in this city, with, with this set of things, a couple could do it here. and what I didn’t know is those conversations were going on in a number of other countries at the time. Fast forward to 2017, when I joined the Peace Corps, queer couples were serving more regularly. It wasn’t a common occurrence and it was only basically in select countries that had gone through a certain training. And so there was sort of, there was a set of countries that, that, that same sex couples could apply to and serve in. and it was always sort of my personal goal to, to place one of those Couples. And I, in my portfolio, I had two countries. I had Fiji and I had Ecuador. and Ecuador was one of the countries that could take. It could take those couples based on, and this is a fun fact, Ecuador, same sex couple, which was a pair of lesbians. But, I also believe that their story is a bit unusual because I think they came in as two separate individuals and they got married during service and so like, kind of cheated the system a little bit. I don’t want to steal their thunder. And if they ever want to come on the podcast, open invitation, of course. but, the decision to go into Peace Corps service as a married couple was, is a really conscious choice. You are really putting yourself out there, I think. And to serve as a couple is also a really unique experience within the Peace Corps. behind the curtain, there’s a whole set of protocols that you have to go to. The way that you assess a couple is different from how you assess, an individual because you have two people. So, in the eyes of a lot of the posts, it’s almost double the risk because if you lose one, you lose the other. In most cases, the couple will. Is resistant usually to, to splitting up. And so, you really want to vet your couples well as a placement officer and make sure that you are sending in a really strong couple who know each other and are going to put up with the, each other’s shit for two years basically and do a good job. And so I was coming to the end of my five years and I, I was really fortunate to meet our guest today, Nicky and Danny. And this was sort of in the time of the pandemic. And so there were a lot of questions about who was going to open first, when volunteers were going to return to country. But I got this standout couple who on paper were so great. And then when I got to interview them, really, shown as a couple as well. And it was not a hard decision to send them to service. and so they are our guests today. And this to me is a really kind of full circle moment because as a placement officer, you don’t off because you work at headquarters for two years or for five years, kind of maybe seven, by the time you’re ending your career, usually your volunteers are maybe coming back. And so, to see someone that I sent off to service come back to the States is a rarity. and so I am really excited to talk to them and hear how it all went. and in the same way that like your teachers are Proud. Like, having been a teacher, I’m proud when my students graduate and, like, do something cool. Like, I have sort of that pride for them, in making it through service. So I’m excited to talk to them. Nicky, Danny, I’ll invite you to introduce yourselves and maybe, in your introduction, where you’re from, and, a couple sentences on what drew you to Peace Corps.

Nicky: Thank you so much. That was for having us. That was really nice. And it is also a very full circle moment for us because, as you said, you were our placement officer, and we interviewed with you, and now we’re eight days away from leaving the country and returning to the United States. So it’s crazy to be here. yeah, I. I’m Nicky, and I’m from Westchester, New York. it’s, like, kind of just above New York City. and we applied. I’ll let Danny go for. It’s really. I applied all because of Danny, so.

Danny: Okay. So it’s kind of a long story, but I’m Danny. I’m from Buffalo, New York, and it’s always been a dream of mine to do the Peace Corps. I did AmeriCorps in my junior year of college. I did, like, a summer program. And after, like, volunteering and doing service, in my hometown of Buffalo for three months, I wanted something more, and I wanted an international experience. I found Peace Corps. So throughout the last two years of college, I did what I could to improve my resume. I met Nicky my senior year of college. Like, a week later, I was accepted to Peace Corps Morocco. A week later, we moved in together, and started dating, obviously. And this was in 2019, and I went to Morocco for two months as a Peace, Corps trainee. I quit because of Nicky. or not because of Nicky. Not because there was a—there’s a lot that we could get into—we can talk about. But, there was a lot going on, and then the pandemic hit, and we thought we could do this together. I told him how much I love Peace Corps Morocco. It just wasn’t the right time. so we applied as a couple, and we’re eight days away from going home.

Justin: I think that the AmeriCorps to Peace Corps pipeline is very strong. There are a lot of people who are drawn to service in that way. I guess for Nicky, when he brought this up as Peace Corps is a thing. Do you want to do this with me? What was your thought on that?

Nicky: I actually think it was me that suggested it. But I felt extremely guilty when I knew this was Daniel Dream and he came home at least maybe partly because of our relationship. So, yeah, so I think it was me that looked into it and was like, we could actually do this as a couple, possibly. Would you want to? And we applied pretty quickly, and I actually think it was, at least for our story, a blessing that the world shut down. And we had that time at home to grow together before we came here, because we have basically three years between when we applied and when we received an invitation. and I think at that point, like, we were both completely ready to take it on. I think maybe we applied a little preemptively, but that’s okay.

Justin: A lot of couples apply, and a lot. As someone who’s talked to a lot of couples about Peace Corps service, there’s a whole range of people who are like, we’ve dated for a month versus, like, people who are 50 years in the game, retirees who are like, sun setting off into Peace Corps. And I. You all talking. reminds me, I think I do remember you all being a somewhat new couple, I think, on paper by the time we got to talking. But when you apply to as a couple, one of the things that you do is you have a couples interview where you were both, where the couple talks to the placement officer about couples things, you know, the challenges of going through service with someone tied to you. and a lot of. I remember a lot of those fears being assuaged in that conversation. Which is always good to leave that conversation with that feeling, I guess, when you were thinking about, I know Ecuador was not necessarily the first choice for you all and what you all started the process on, but when Ecuador kind of entered the picture, did you all feel comfortable with that as a place to go, or were there any kind of reservations about going into service as a couple?

Nicky: Couple?

Danny: From how I remember it, we applied originally to go anywhere because we assumed that if we’re applying as a gay couple will, you know, Peace Corps will place us somewhere that we can succeed. And then, Nicky, when the world started to, like, reopen post pandemic, post Covid, he saw some countries have postings, and so he emailed them the Ecuadorian CD or whoever was running the ship back then. And that’s how we kind of like, jump started our process and switched from Thailand to Ecuador, because we were originally being considered for Thailand. But I don’t think we really had any, like, reservations on where we were going, because we just trusted that Peace Corps would hopefully put, us somewhere that we could succeed.

Justin: I think for all the couples listening, that’s a really great strategy. The options for couples, the options for couples in total around the world are limited because most posts can only manage or find sites for two or three couples. You know, there are some countries that love. For example, I know Fiji loves couples. and they’re always like as many couples as you can. Like, that’s. If you’re a couple and you want to go to Fiji, great. others are like maybe one, two at most. and it’s a space and it’s a logistics thing. And so being really flexible is a huge, huge tip for all the couples out there. And so I think that was really smart. And. And how much more so to not only take couples but also to take a, ah, same sex couple is, you know, not a unicorn, but, less options for sure. So then you got the invitation to serve. what was that feeling like?

Nicky: Oh my God. I just remember like, for us, because the application process was so long because of COVID like we were waiting for three years. So I just remember just like, I think we literally both cried and were like jumping around in our apartment in Buffalo. I was so excited. So I. Yeah, I think that it just like, was a long time coming and it just all felt like it finally was here. And it’s a huge change. Obviously we, like, after that, after we had a little bit to judge, digest, and freak out of excitement, we then were like, okay, like, we have to quit our jobs and tell our friends and family that we’re leaving. So that was crazy. But I think overall it was just such a positive experience.

Danny: Yeah. And what I’ll add is like, I feel like we were at the perfect time for us personally, like, in our lives to like, transition away from our careers and like, what we were working on since first applying like three years ago from when we received the invitation, like, it really came at the perfect time that like, we felt super comfortable quitting our jobs and like moving on to this next step.

Justin: Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I know how I felt at the, towards the end of Pandemic and as soon as things were starting to unthaw, I was like, I need an international vacation. I gotta go somewhere. I gotta.

Nicky: I need some. Yeah, for sure.

Justin: I guess in terms of. Usually with our guests on the podcast, we talk about kind of like, were you out? How was things with your family? Like, going into a new environment where you’re maybe not in the firmest of standing. Like, what were the dynamics of maybe your queer life going into service. How are you all feeling with your LGBT identities prior to departure? I think the math is a bit different when you’re going as a couple because you have less option to turn that off.

Danny: yeah, it’s funny. We have really different experiences growing up. I don’t. He can share his story, but I grew up in an area that I would call not super conservative, but definitely, like, maybe hesitant towards, like, LGBTQ community. So I didn’t. I came out publicly to friends when I was, like, 18, a freshman in college, but I didn’t tell my family until I started dating Nicky. And I, like, physically brought him to Easter breakfast in, 2020, in, like, February of 2020 or something, or 2019. And I was like, I’m gay. Like, surprise. And it’s not because I thought that they would, like, reject me. It was just more of, like, a personal. Like, I. I feel like I built it up to be, like, this huge spectacle with them of, like, Like, I have this secret, and, like, oh, my God, this is so big for me, and this is going to change everything. And then my family was like, hey, Nicky. Like, they’re like, okay, like, you’re gay. That’s fine. But I feel like that’s just the environment that I grew up in, and I heard stories of, like, other people in the community having, like, issues with coming out. But, yeah, that was like, we’ve been dating for six years, so that was actually, like, six years ago, which is crazy. But then, like, he has a completely different experience than I do.

Nicky: Well, and also, I think that when Danny first went to do Peace Corps Morocco, it was, you know, right after we had started dating. Like, I think he left, like, two or three months after we started dating. So it was also, like, two or three months after he came out to his family, and then he went to a country where it’s illegal to be gay. So it’s like he had to go back in after he had just come out. So I think that that’s another reason. There was a lot that went into his decision to come home at that point. Not to speak for you, but. And then by the time we ended up accepting and going to serve in Ecuador, we had already been dating for about almost three years at that point. And so we. We had both been living as a couple, an LGBTQ couple for three years. And I came out when I was, like, 15 to my family. And so I’ve always felt. And I grew up in, like, a very Very, like, liberal and open area. So super fortunate experience, obviously. But, I think that we were. We. We felt pretty confident and, like, we looked it up and we saw that gay marriage was legal in Ecuador. And that’s, like, about. We, like, looked up if there were some gay bars. Yeah, like, what cities have the gay bars? Yeah, like, we m. And that was it. Yeah, like, we.

Danny: We looked up if there were pride parades. And then, I mean, at that point, like, six years or three years into dating, we just felt so comfortable with ourselves and, like, our relationship and, like, how we function in the world, which I get. It’s very different than, like, leaving the United States. Like, this was both our first experiences. Experiences traveling, and, like, leaving the United States as a couple of. But looking back on it, 10 out of 10 recommend.

Justin: It was amazing, I think, for a lot of people to pivot to the m. The couple aspect of it. For people who go into service a lot of time, the worry is, can I. Can I wear this identity? Can I claim this identity, or am I hiding this? And I think that math for a couple is different because obviously you’re going into the community as a unit, as a pair, I guess, transitioning maybe a little bit into, like, now you’re on the ground in Ecuador. What were those introductions? Like? Were you. Were you pretending to be roommates? Like, I’m. I’m very curious how, like, your community sort of initially received you.

Nicky: Well, I actually, I, was thinking of Monica.

Danny: When we went up to Monica, like, sobbing.

Nicky: Oh, yeah, no, I wasn’t thinking that. You can tell that if you want.

Danny: Okay, so, like, you guys know as, like, our pcbs. So, like, when you get accepted to Peace Corps and you land in country, at least for Ecuador, we stayed in a hotel for, like, the first three or four days, like, without a host family, and we had, like, trainings at the training center or whatever. So on that fourth day was, like, host family reveal time, and we elected to live separately and we as a couple, you. You can choose. It’s heavily recommended to, like, live separately. And so we chose that because we both wanted to learn Spanish only.

Nicky: Only during training. Like, once you go to your site, you live together. But during training, they recommended that we would live separately just because we didn’t know Spanish and, like, we would be able to just learn a lot more that way and wouldn’t be influenced by each other.

Danny: So right before, like, they did the reveal, we came up to. We went up to the host family, like, coordinator sobbing, like, hysterically sobbing so anxious. So, like, we don’t know what’s going to happen. Like, what, if we’re placed with, like, homophobic people and, like, one of us is in, like, this beautiful place and, like, they’re super accepting, because of.

Justin: Course that would happen. It would be very, like, Prince and Pauper. Yeah.

Danny: Like, we were just, like, freaking out, like. And, so what actually happened was, like, we were placed as neighbors next to each other. and, like, our families were related and, like, obviously very accepting of gay people. Like, they knew right away that we were a couple.

Nicky: And they had. They had, Peace Corps volunteers in the past that were gay. And so, like, Peace Corps Ecuador had a relationship with the families already. And, yeah, my host mom was Danny’s host mom’s daughter, so we lived with, like, the grandma and the mom, basically. and, yeah, so it was, like, I would say, like, Peace Corps staff did an amazing. Sorry, I, like, no, go for it.

Danny: Yeah.

Nicky: Okay. Peace. Kristoff did, like, an amazing job, I think, just, like, soothing our nerves and just. And I think they did a great job, like, preparing us and, telling us what to expect. Like, we were clearly anxious before we did. It was, like, a little. What was it? To find out who our host family was, like, we had to do something ridiculous, like, pretend to be frogs. And, like. And, like, the host parents were also pretending to be frogs. And, like, that’s how we found each other in our big group of 40 volunteers. And, before that, she told us, like, you’re gonna be neighbors.

Danny: Like, they know you’re gay.

Nicky: They know you’re gay. Like, nothing to worry about. And so we were just like, oh, thank God. yeah. And what I will say was definitely, I think, maybe unique to serving as a couple. And what you mentioned in your question, was during trainings, a lot of the trainings, especially those for, like, for the LGBTQ volunteers, were, like, catered towards single volunteers. And it was, like, making the decision, like, do you come out to your community? Do you not? And it was a little bit, like, uncomfortable at times because we were just sitting there. And when they brought, like, volunteer volunteers in Ecuador who, like, obviously were doing an amazing job and we appreciate their insight, but they were saying, like, oh, we didn’t come out in our community. We came out to, like, some close friends, and we were just sitting there like, okay, but, like, we have to.

Justin: Like, I don’t know.

Nicky: There’s no hiding it. So parts were a little bit, like. There was definitely, like, some challenges, but I think overall, like, the staff did an amazing job.

Justin: I think that that speaks from like a headquarters kind of mentality. Like, I think that really speaks to how rare this is. Is, the. Those resource volunteers who come in and help with the trainings are. I don’t even. Like, I don’t think that I’m. To be generous. That probably wasn’t a conscious decision of them to like, not think about that. It’s just like those. To have a same sex couple is like, you know, there’s probably. You could count them on a hand or two in the history of Peace Corps. And so like, to. To factor. They should have factored that in, but, you know, it probably didn’t. Those dots just didn’t connect. It’s.

Nicky: It’s exactly. Yeah, no, I think so too. I think that they definitely did the best they can. And like, I just remember during those trainings, us. Us really feeling like, oh, yeah, like.

Danny: Like when we go to site, like, hopefully it’s okay for us to just be like our honest selves and like, integrate as how we would like to. And I mean, it. We did. But yeah, I remember during those sessions.

Nicky: It was like, yeah, it all worked out. I mean, we had an amazing experience and like, I had multiple co workers that are gay and like, so did Danny actually in both of our schools that we worked in. And so it just, it felt like we never had to hide our identity or anything like that. But I will say, like, there was some anxiety during the trainings because I do think they’re more catered towards a, like single people, which makes sense because there’s not a lot of gay or LGBTQ couples. So it makes a lot of sense.

Justin: Hopefully. Peace Corps, Ecuador. You’re taking notes. they listen. maybe before we pivot to talking. Service. Service. While we’re on the topic of couples, I think straight couples, gay couples, other couples who go into service, I think a really common experience is them feeling like you’re talking to a little bit weird from the group, but also like—I remember we had four couples in my group and they sort of formed like couple squad. and I think that’s a really common experience where the married, ah, the couples, the married people don’t fit in and end up kind of being not ostracized, but like the single people maybe don’t know what to do with them. Did you all experience that as well within your cohort?

Danny: We had a plan going into this. we thought about this and so what we did early on, like for the first, like, probably six weeks of, PST Pre service training, we sat away from each other, and we didn’t sit next to each other. We. We obviously, like, communicated, and everyone knew that we dated and. Or that we are dating. But, we made it, like, very kind of clear early on that we want to have our own individualized experiences, because when you get put at sight, you’re together for two years. So, like, we kind of wanted to just enjoy this experience apart and make it special for, you know, us as individuals, because we knew the time was coming that we would, you know, be together for the rest of the service.

Nicky: Yeah. And I will say, for us, like, I really think it worked super well. Like, we, Like, eventually. I mean, we eventually, our friendships meshed together, and we’re a part of, like, the same friend group. But I think something that our friends tell us and have told us is that, like, one thing that they love about us as a couple is, like, how we are also individuals and how they’re genuinely friends with us individually. And that always makes me really happy because that was really a conscious decision. We went into Peace Corps, and we were like, we have to. Because I guess we were just doing a ton of research beforehand and saw that that might be an issue, that they might not befriend you or something because you kind of already have each other, or it’s just easier for couples to. To just not make friends and rely on each other. which we very well could have done. But, yeah, no, I think that was just a decision that we made, and it really paid off.

Danny: Yeah. And I think for, like, straight couples, gay couples, like, that kind of should be what you should do. It worked. I think, especially our biggest fear was, like, for people to look at us as, like, one package. When, like, I’m so different from Nicky, and Nicky is so different than me. And although we love each other, like, we don’t want to be viewed as, like, a, conglomerate or, like a package, you know?

Justin: No, I think that’s super smart. And I like. I think back to my service and all the couples I served with and, like, my favorite couple that I knew, they did the exact same thing. Like, I didn’t even realize they were a couple until, like, after the training when they were like, oh, yeah, we’re going off to site together. And I was like, what?

Nicky: Why?

Justin: Why? They’re like, oh, okay, cool. I wouldn’t have known. so I think that’s super good advice. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. One more thing. We got so Much credit for living apart because, like, we were having the same experiences as single, you know, individuals who were serving in the Peace Corps. Like, we went, home to our own separate host families and had different stories to share when, you know, you’re with people during PST and everyone’s like, complaining about their host family in like a loving way. so I would also recommend that to anyone listening in a couple.

Justin: Did you all do language training together too?

Nicky: Yeah, yeah, we were in the same language group, so that was a benefit too. Like we had hours a day together in the same like language group, because we came in with the same language level, and it was low and so, so that was a huge benefit. We got to see each other every day and like. But I think that even if you weren’t in the same language group, you still could see each other. Like, you obviously are in training together. You still see each other. So I think don’t worry about that. Any couples listening? But, I don’t know. I don’t know. What if they are?

Justin: They’re listening, they’re out there, you know, we know you’re there because of course you’re listening. Why wouldn’t you be? Ah. I just. That made me think of a really good question. How long was the PST for you all?

Nicky: I think it was 10 weeks now.

Danny: I think it was 10 or 11.

Nicky: Yeah, I thought it was 10. Maybe 10.

Justin: You know, it has to be between eight and 12 and 10 sounds about right. Sure. so if, if, if, if you all can do it for 10 weeks, then M. I’m sure many other couples can do it as well. Maybe then let’s pivot kind of going to site and like what that transition was like. Ecuador has a couple different programs, but you all were both in the ed program, right?

Danny: Yeah.

Nicky: Yes. Yeah, we were in tefl. and yeah, so we found out our site assignment, like same as everybody else. and I guess that this just now that we’re thinking about like our whole experience as like queer couple too. I will say during training, like before site assignment, like everybody knew that, you know, of sites opening up and possible sites. And I will say there was definitely a lot of banter and people were like, oh, they’re definitely sending the gay couple to Cuenca. Ah. which they did. Which people were right.

Justin: That is sort of like a medium sized city. I mean it’s, that’s a third, it’s.

Nicky: The third largest in Ecuador, but So there’s Quito, Guayaquil and Cuenca. And Quito is where all of your training is. It’s the capital. most people don’t, like their site isn’t Quito. If, if anything, there’s. I think the closest person is someone that’s 40 minutes outside of the city. so you could be very close to Quito. But there is volunteers that are like, right in Cuenca. Like, are like their site is Cuenca. And so I think that was like a hot commodity. Like, a lot of people were like, oh, we want to go there because it’s a very beautiful city and it’s safe and it’s large and it’s. It’s beautiful. And so I think that was something that we dealt with during training. Right before that, a lot of volunteers were like, oh, like, they’re definitely putting the gay couple in Cuenca. They have to be. And we were like, oh, like, you know, I don’t know.

Danny: I don’t know where we’re going.

Nicky: And then they did, and we.

Justin: Were like, thank God.

Danny: Oh, my God.

Nicky: No, I’m kidding, I’m kidding.

Danny: I don’t know if you can say, but. Okay, what, what I’ll say just before going this site. I wish. Not that I wish, just I think a lot of people don’t understand that when you apply as a couple, although during PST you can live apart. like couples sign on to serve together. And so no matter where he was going, I was going with him and vice versa. I think there was some confusion about, like, trying to partner with certain people because, like, you’re really good friends. But, like one, like we applied as a couple, so we knew for sure we were going to cite as a couple as like a package deal. Yeah. But maybe. Actually that’s kind of shady what I just said, so maybe I didn’t.

Nicky: I don’t even know if I understand.

Justin: I didn’t. No shade detected on my end.

Danny: No. But if in our, in our cohort, I feel like actually, never mind, never mind.

Justin: Maybe some people had expectations for who they were going to be paired with. Well, that’s, that’s a, that’s a fool’s game.

Nicky: Yeah. Yeah, of course we knew we were going to be together. Like we applied as a couple, so that. Duh. and yes, I’m like, where. If you’re not a couple, you have no idea. Like, you’re going wherever. And like, that’s that.

Justin: And I think, I don’t think this is talking out of school. I Did you? I was a PCVL my third year which is Peace Corps volunteer leader and so like I didn’t get to assign people to sites but I got to kind of help with that process and see how we did it in the Philippines. And one thing I think it, I think when you’re in the mix you don’t realize that this is going on. like there’s some closed doors kind of conversations going on that are, that are very private and like protected by HIPAA and all these kind of things but like I remember by the time it kind of got to a place where a normal person could see the list there were already people who had to go to this place for medical reasons. There were people who needed this for accommodations there were people who needed this because it’s a big city and it’s more open and we can put the gay couple there because that’s the right environment for that. And so like by the time they’re getting to your you know, regular degular healthy 20 year old single people like those conversations about who’s going where are much, usually much more minute and there’s not always a lot of options so like people, I don’t know people can have a lot of thoughts on that but like I don’t know in my experience sometimes it’s literally like well this person said they like hiking so they’re going to the mountain and like yeah,

Nicky: No, yeah they, they like told us basically that we were one of the first people that they like placed that they found a host family because you have to find a host family for them that’s accepting and willing to take a. First of all willing to take a couple, two volunteers and then willing to take a gay couple so it’s like a lot of work so I feel like that makes sense for them to try to place a queer couple first. so yeah, no, we felt very well taken care of and love, I love our site, I love Cuenca so I’m super happy but we would have, we would have done, we would have done well anywhere.

Justin: Of course I’m curious about and I don’t know who wants to start but talking a little bit about what your schools were like and, and kind of what projects you delved into. What were some of your successes as a volunteer?

Danny: Yeah, so I can go first. So I worked, we both worked at universities in and outside of Cuenca our site. and yeah we were both TEFL volunteers so we were here to teach English at the University level I did clubs, conversation clubs. I had a club with particularly like a women’s group in STEM who were learning English because they were going to Germany to do a conference and things like that. So some really cool things. But my main job was to be in a classroom co teaching with another teacher.

Justin: Yeah.

Nicky: And then I, I also worked at a university. Mine was a ah, little bit outside of Cuenca. So we live kind of like on the outskirts of the city and I take a like inter provincial bus because it’s actually in a different province and to go to my university each day. and we had like slightly, I think all of the university volunteers kind of had slightly different experiences like it really depended I think like when you work in a kalehio a high school, like it’s a lot more structured and like you, you co. Teach with your, with your teachers and like that’s your job. Whereas at universities they kind of, you kind of create your job with your counterpart. And so I actually ran like tutoring, basically tutoring sessions, or tutorials like for each semester once a week and like different students would come each week and I did it like totally by myself, which I know with like that was another thing that was a little bit weird about training because during training we kind of learned the whole time like you need to be with another person, like with another teacher. and I think with universities it’s different because they’re all like adults so you don’t need to be with another teacher anymore at the university level. and so yeah, I was like alone and ran my own classroom which I really enjoyed and I do think they put people with teaching experience at the university level. So for me it wasn’t a big deal at all. I was totally okay with that and actually really liked it. Ah, so I don’t think that they would put someone that like has no teaching experience like at the university level and like make them work alone.

Justin: Yeah, I think I was also an ed volunteer. I also, I, I feel like our journeys are very similar and I was also in sort of a medium sized city. I worked at a university. we were really hammered into working with your counterpart in. My counterpart really took that to heart. So like we worked really closely together and we were like poster children for like co teaching and co facilitating. and like got invited to, to like model that at some of the trainings and stuff which like she loved and I, I loved doing that with her. but there were definitely days where I was like this, you should just teach this lesson and I should just teach that lesson and. But I think good to hear that even within the same sector and similar experiences, you make it what you want it to be. And you both responded to what your schools wanted from you. Right? I imagine that was a very organic kind of process over the years.

Nicky: Yeah, I think so for sure. And I do think that if I was uncomfortable and didn’t want to be in a classroom alone, if I had told my school that they probably would have been very receptive to putting me with a, a co teacher and doing that. and I think Peace Corps also would have really had my back and helped me to do that with them. But I just like really enjoyed it and didn’t mind and I still like co planned like I would communicate with my professors, with the professors from each level and they would tell me basically what they’re working on and what their students need help with and then I would just run my own tutorials with those students and that was, that was it. And it was fun. And I, we also had clubs and stuff like that, but that was my.

Justin: Main job, maybe pulling away from work. And what was it like to serve as a couple? and were you able to make friends in the community and sort of develop something similar to what you like a community you would have here in the States?

Danny: Yeah, I mean I think serving as a couple in general is like a very different experience than maybe like the typical Peace Corps experience. Just because like you’re bringing in your relationship to, you’re bringing in not so much more. But like, you know, there were times where like we fought or like there were times that like we had really good times and there were you know, like all the dynamics of, of being in a relationship overall super positive. I think being in the community it, we definitely relied on each other’s like social like capabilities I guess to make friends, which made it easier I guess. I mean we’re not, we’re not the most, we don’t have the most friends ever because we’re also doing it in a different language than English. Right. And that’s very difficult. But amongst our immediate group of friends, like we, we’ve never had issues with you know, identifying as gay or we never thought that somebody didn’t want to be our friend because we were gay and we were in a relationship.

Danny: I don’t know if you can add more.

Nicky: Yeah, no, I would agree with that. we actually, this is, this. I don’t know, I’m just going to be totally honest. So when we got here, I, we, both like, got to site and obviously we made friends with like, our co workers. Kind of like, we would go to like, co worker parties and like, you know, that was fun and stuff. And there’s a couple other volunteers that are right nearby that, aren’t far at all. So we see other volunteers. So that was like kind of our circle for a while. And I remember, like, I realized that was our circle for a while. And not that there was like, nothing wrong with it. It was really a great group. But I was just like, wait, like, the only friends we have are other Peace Corps volunteers and like our co workers. And I was like, I really want to make like a friend, like organically. and so I like, literally remember saying we went to like New Year’s and, got together with a lot of volunteers for New Year’s. And I remember set our New Year’s resolutions and mine was to make. I, I said to make an Ecuadorian friend. Of course my co workers were Ecuadorian and I had Ecuadorian friends to my co workers. But, like, I meant organically. yeah. And so it really did take us quite some time to like, really, do that and to like, get friends that weren’t your friends that are like, provided for you by these different organizations you’re in. But it did work. After I made that resolution, I literally, I got my haircut and I was getting my haircut by my hairstylist. And he’s really cool. And I was like, do you like, like to go out? He was like. He was like, yeah. And I was like, we should go out together. And then so we went to a bar and. And, then we became friends and we see them like a lot now, like him and his brother, and like, he’s like, become friends with our Peace Square friends. And so it was super fun. And I’m really, I was very proud of myself after a year living in this country to finally, to finally make a friend.

Justin: Did you have that conversation in Spanish as well? Yes.

Nicky: Yeah, no, they don’t speak any English.

Justin: Yeah, I don’t know if you have similar thoughts. Peace Corps language training is great, but one of the things I never was taught was how to have a haircut in our local language. I don’t know if they taught you all that, but I was like, there needs to be maybe more so for men because we have to get our haircuts more often. But, like, I was like, I need these Words, like, once a month. And no one ever taught me, like, the verb cut. Or, like, now that I think about.

Nicky: It, I don’t think. Yeah. I don’t know if we ever were taught that. I came with Danny’s bald, and I came to B score with really, really long hair. Like, I mean, like, literally, it was, like, past my shoulders. it was a choice, and I don’t know what was going through my head. And so no judgment to anyone else out there. but, yeah, so then I, like, went. And I remember I just, like, came prepared with, like, I Google translated, like, all the different verbs that I might need. and, yeah, but. So it was an experience getting my hair cut for the first time, and, like, I chopped it all off here. Like, not because I felt pressured to or anything. I was just like, I’m so sick of this. This is the shortest, like, I’ve ever had that. I just got it cut even shorter again, and now it’s like. I don’t know what I changed all the time, though.

Justin: Like, the little tips.

Nicky: Yeah, like, frosted tips right now. That’s because I. I, I’ve had, like, I don’t know, like, four or five different colors while in Ecuador. Like, I’ve changed it a ton, and I just chopped off all the blonde, and so now I have just a little. The little tips left. But, yeah, that’s the. I guess that’s the other going bridging that into an LGBTQ experience. Not that all gay people, like, dye their hair, but, But I’m sorry. I’m, like, really? I’m, like, screaming out all these stereotypes. This isn’t who I am. Sorry. Anyway, I had all these different hair colors. I dress gay. I, like, never censored myself here. And, like, they tell you to do that during. During your. What is it? What’s it? They don’t, like, tell you to, but, like, kind of during your. You know, when you’re of staging. At staging, they’re like, no piercing, no piercings, no whatever. Like, try to act, like, as traditional as possible, and, like, it’s for your own safety. I get it. But I never. I felt very comfortable, and I never did that. And I have piercings and dyed hair and dress gay and wear mesh shirts and not to work, but. But it’s fine. I feel safe, and it’s great.

Justin: I had piercings as well, and I got. I don’t. I. I don’t know if you also experienced, but, like, a lot of attention and questions, and I felt like I Heard the same thing back when I served. Like, don’t do this. It’s bad. Like all the, all the language is so negative. And then my experience was, maybe some curiosity. Nothing ever evil. Like, The biggest things me and my co workers fought about in terms of my appearance was like, I just refused to wear shoes. I was, I’m coming in, I’m coming in sandals. And that was. They didn’t like it. And I was like, well, you don’t pay me. And so like you can’t super tell me how to dress. So yeah, I think, you know, for people listening with piercings or the hair colors, things like that, it really comes down, I think to your level of comfortability with attention and, and, and tattoos also are in this. Like, are you, are you willing to answer 500 questions about why do you have that. Are you willing to like know that people are staring at you because your hair is blue? and if you can handle that, then like, that’s fine. You know, like people are not going to, you’re not going to cause, you know, know you’re not going to cause an argument because you look different usually in another country.

Nicky: Yeah, I completely agree. And also like, I mean it might be dependent obviously on what country or what, what site you’re at. But like I think that when I What was going through my head at that time when they were saying these things during pre service training, staging, during staging when they were saying all this stuff, I was like, well, I’ll figure it out when I get there and I’ll reassess because I could always take my nose ring out if is an issue. And I, I was like, definitely adaptable to that. Like I opened myself up to that possibility. But I personally just felt like I never had to. And, and also I don’t even think it’s. I don’t really get looks very much either. Like. Well, and we’re also in like a larger city so. But I don’t, I don’t get the attention either.

Danny: So.

Justin: As a white man stomping through Southeast Asia, I garnered significant attention.

Nicky: That makes sense.

Justin: But also like in Southeast Asia it is a lot of older men. And literally someone asked me one time why I wasn’t old. Okay, Every, every white man that they had seen had been like above the age of 50 and they were like, you young white people don’t come here. Why are you here? Why aren’t you old?

Nicky: That’s funny. There’s actually a large like expat community in Cuenca, and so there’s a lot of older people here that are like foreigners to Ecuador as well. So that makes sense. Yeah.

Justin: Okay, so you’re at site things. It sounds like work is going really well and, and clicking mostly with that and, and finding your way. I’m curious, you know, in a po, you all, I believe, were the first group to go to Ecuador post Covid, the first new group of volunteers to go. So I’m wondering if there were any unique challenges Covid related or, or otherwise that that kind of showed up during your service.

Danny: one thing that actually does come to mind is it was very difficult, not difficult, but we didn’t have the same resources because the volunteers in the groups prior to us post Covid were people who were removed from country due to the pandemic and they were all placed near the capital in the northern part of the country. And since we were the first like brand new group to Peace Corps to come, after the pandemic we, a lot of us went south of the country and so the closest volunteers, like veteran volunteers that have been in country for like a year were like eight hours away from us, like where me and Nicky were. And I think that was definitely just like a, a challenge because like, we didn’t have the, you know, like, wise elder giving us, you know, advice on how to operate and we didn’t, we couldn’t really make friends with people who have already experienced the hardships that we were going to face being newly to site or like currently facing. So that was one, one challenge I can think of.

Nicky: Yeah, definitely. And then, I mean, obviously now, like, I feel like that was just a very unique time when countries were opening back up, but now there’s volunteers all over the place. there was also, when we first got to site or went to site, they were placing volunteers all over the country, like in the co. In the mountains and in the Amazon region. And now, you know, we’re about to leave. But about a year into our service, they actually pulled like every volunteer that they placed on the coast out of the coast and replaced them. and now the coast is completely off limits and we’re not allowed to travel there. And it’s basically just because, just very quickly and rapidly like, and I don’t know, maybe as a result of COVID I don’t really know, but just the country like has changed. The coast is not as safe as it once was. I still, it’s a shame because it’s so beautiful. I love it there so much. But I’m happy we got to go. The new volunteers that are coming to.

Justin: Ecuador, I’m sorry but yeah, we had. The Philippines has huge, like the whole south of the archipelago is off limits because of Muslim separatists and all this stuff. But that’s where like all the best beaches are. it’s one of those downsides where Peace Corps does want to keep you safe, but it also means you don’t get to see all, sometimes all the good stuff.

Nicky: Yeah, yeah. There’s still so much to see. It’s still such a beautiful country and like it’s so diverse like between the coast and the mountains and the Amazon, like diverse, like ecologically and like culturally. like accents are completely different depending on where you go and so it’s still like really, really cool. There’s still so much to see. I am like we’re very fortunate that we got to go. We went like three times to the coast before they closed it down and each time was amazing. Loved it. But I get it.

Justin: Maybe you can go back once. you’re not people. PCVs.

Nicky: Yeah, exactly. Service is ending in eight days because like we won’t be here. Yeah. Nine days.

Danny: We keep saying different days. Just know that. And when you relisten to this. I’ve said eight days. He said nine days. And I think we started this by saying 10 days. Well and the official day is March 21st so it’s actually 11 days that we are going home.

Nicky: Well, we’re leaving, we’re leaving Cuenca in eight days to like go to Quito to the capital to like do all that. So I feel like service is like ending in eight days because like we won’t be here. But I meant nine days. Like we could go to the coast but really I guess like 12 days we could go to the coast. Yeah.

Justin: that makes me think are you all doing any like send offs going in the Philippines? We call them despeditas, which I think is also a, a Spanish loan word.

Danny: Yeah, that is. Yeah.

Justin: Are you all saying goodbye in style?

Nicky: Yeah, we have already like so many times, like I don’t know how many more times we could say goodbye but I, I’m still, I’m going to again and I’m gonna cry each time I do. but yeah, we’ve said a lot of goodbyes to a lot of different people. it was just carnival here and so that’s like ah, time where like a lot of volunteers get together in different areas. So we saw a lot of different people and said our goodbyes. and I have a co-worker Party in like two days. I’m gonna say goodbye to them. Said goodbye to the hairstylist a couple days ago. yeah, no, it’s, it’s wrapping up.

Justin: I guess now that we’re sort of thinking about this. Obviously you are not RPCVs yet, but yeah, you’re coming back to the States, going to grad school. Normally I’d ask how Peace Corps has influenced your life. I, I’m wondering, it might be interesting to turn that around and see if you have any questions about worries. Questions about being an RPCV.

Nicky: That’s a good.

Danny: There’s one thing that we’ve talked about so much and even through like our Peace Corps trainings at the, at the COS conference, that I’m curious about. So for you personally, like was the transition into going from like always talking about the Phil. The Philippines, the Philippines, like trying to talk about that to your friends and family, was that ah, difficult when like they might have not been as interested in the topic as you were?

Justin: I’m a bit of a freak and an outlier in this regard because my life has continued to revolve around the Philippines. My husband is Filipino. and so like, like forever a part of my life.

Nicky: That helps. Yeah.

Justin: It is tough because I think right. Looking back on it right after service, you’re sort of insufferable because you have in my case three years worth of stories about this one place that are deeply personal and. Right. That’s all you want to talk about. And at the same time most Americans cannot fathom what it is like to live in the environment that you’ve been in. Even in a mid sized city that I’m sure has many amenities. I had supermarkets and movie theaters and not too far off from an American life. But even still there were things that my family still doesn’t really understand how I lived the way I did. It’s nice in this regard as you get further away from your service. Not every story has to be a Peace Corps story. and you. For me, I got to Thailand and after service I moved to Thailand and taught for another two years there. And so it was nice place to be in that new environment and after a couple months have new things to talk about and not everything had to be about the Philippines, or service or something like that and all of that. I think because I went to Thailand, all that kind of got. I kicked that can down the line. And so then when I got to the States and was back around all my RPCV friends who are here in D.C. which is where I landed. that cycle of like, oh, we’re always together. It’s this little RPCV cohort and that was really great community. and, and I have a really great set of friends who we all know each other from service and that was the foundation for like those friendships to like phase two into like what are we like as Americans and what is this like here? And so nowadays we don’t talk about service that much. Honestly. You know, even though that’s the shared thread through all of us, know, we don’t recollect on that too much but we know it’s there. it also helps that all a lot of them now have children and so like that’s what they are preoccupied with. but for me, yeah I, I think I’m still that because up until Covet I was going back to the Philippines once a year. I tried to start a nonprofit organization back in the Philippines. I had a one way ticket booked in February for February 2020 when all the flights started getting cancelled. So like, like up until the pandemic my plan had been to go back and to live there permanently.

Nicky: Oh wow.

Justin: Yeah, that’s still a plan maybe one day in the future. But right now it’s on, on hold for other things. but yeah you will, you’ll get your little elevator pitch down and you’ll figure out how to talk about your service in a way that like is meaningful for people but also is like yeah, it was great.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s my biggest fear is like you know, I’m 28 years old and it’s like I just feel like I know how like memories work at this point and like things from high school, I like can’t remember things from college. It’s like a struggle. Things from like my early 20s, it’s like yeah, it’s kind of fuzzy where like I just hope my experience and like my time here doesn’t just like fade away because I don’t talk about it or like it doesn’t like leave the presence of my mind because I’m not like you know, like embracing it somehow which I know you should be.

Nicky: Able to remember things from when you were 20.

Danny: I, I fear no but like you know like, you know like experience and like the like the like fun things, like the mundane things of like living like, in the country that you serve that, you know, at one point, we’re just like, everyday things. We’re now in the States. They’re not, you know, they’re gone.

Nicky: No, completely. Yeah. I’m. I’m very nervous about going back and not remembering, like, Spanish. Like, I. We, like, I better not forget this. Like, But, like, no one really in our lives at home really speaks Spanish, so I really feel like we’re gonna have to try to make. Or, like, I don’t know, like, What’s the word? Like, infiltrate into, like, some sort of group or community that. Where we could practice Spanish to, like, keep that up, because I really want to do that. and what else? Like, yeah, we have been talking about that, like, a little bit and just, like, what our conversations will look like, especially with people that, like, maybe our friends that we were friends with before we left or our family. And, like, we’re like, this was such a huge, like, monumental thing that, like, we could talk about for days and days and days. And I’m like, I. Like, I don’t know. I don’t know what. I don’t know what I’m expecting. I’m not expecting anything really, but it’s like, I just feel like it’s going to be different than what I expect.

Justin: I mean, Peace Corps will teach you that always, right?

Nicky: Yeah, exactly.

Justin: I think you’re coming to D.C. you’re going to meet awesome people who have done service and will want to talk about it and share that. They’re Everywhere here in D.C. so you’ll meet lots of Peace Corps people who will want to share those stories with you. I think, to Danny’s point, now I’m 15 years out of service, basically, and a lot of the memories that I have are the good ones.

Danny: Right?

Justin: It’s. Those details are a little hazy. except when I go back and then I’m like, oh, yeah, I hated that place. Or like, yeah, yeah, I’m triggered now from this. but you have nine. Nine to 11 days, depending on who to believe. Like, I don’t know if that’s important to you. You still have the opportunity to go around and take those pictures and, you know, write those diary entries. And, you know, that’s the little—that’s my favorite soup place. Or that’s, you know, this was the lady who sold me eggplants every day. Or, you know, those kind of people, you can still capture them. You’re in that position.

Nicky: We have to take a picture with our Tienda people. I just realized that, thank you for that. Yeah, no, because we don’t have a, I don’t have a picture of them. I want to remember Tianda people. We see them every day. They live below our house.

Justin: No, those people are so important to service and like kind of make up that tapestry of your community. I think maybe that is a good place to wrap up this episode. Usually one of the last things we do is, give you all the opportunity. If someone is looking at Ecuador as their potential destination for service, do you have any advice or anything that you would, tell that future pcv?

Nicky: Yeah, great question.

Danny: I would say if you are a part of the LGBTQ+ community, if you are not just come here with an open mind. there are so many experiences to have in Ecuador. There’s, you know, the coast, the mountains, the Amazon, there’s different foods. you know, it’s, it’s a really underrated place to travel to. It’s an underrated culture to understand. so I would definitely recommend checking it out. And I, I fear that most people probably won’t have the opportunity to come to Ecuador on their own. It’s not like, you know, a sought out place like Colombia or Peru or Argentina. so, you know, definitely check it out. Do your research. I feel like you’ll, you’ll fall in love with it.

Nicky: That was really well said. I completely agree. I think I love this country. It will always have a very special place in my heart. I think that definitely have an open mind. There will be, I mean, just, I feel like this might be the same for any Peace Corps country, but there’s going to be things that you just did not expect that will happen for sure. for example, like we came to, yeah, this like, amazing, great city that we love so much. And then, next thing we know, like a couple months in, our power is being shut off for 12 hours a day. So, you know, it happens wherever you are and it’s okay. Like we made it through it. it’s like maybe three months of power outages because of like the, you know how it works here. And then you’re on for nine months of the year. So just maybe be prepared for that. That’s something. Like I really almost threw out my solar light because we brought one because I thought we were. I don’t even know what I was expecting, but then I was like, I did need the solar light. Like this actually did come. Which when we got here it was like, why did I bring this solar light? It’s ridiculous. So, yeah.

Justin: I. Both. Great points. Be ready for the unexpected. And, and. And roll with the punches. And, you will have a great service, even if it is a country that maybe wasn’t on your radar at first.

Nicky: For sure. Yeah.

Justin: Kind of going back to that idea of, of letting Peace Corps take the wheel and, and figure out a place that’s going to be good for you. I think that’s a great note to end on.

Nicky, Danny, thank you for, for being guests here on the podcast, for sharing your story. I, I’m so glad we got to capture something like this and have it recorded for, for future couples to. To refer to. And, and I think it’s just really. I think this is, you know, for all the reasons I talked about at the start, it’s a really cool moment for me and for the podcast and for this community. So, I am proud of you. I’m thankful for you. I think, I wish you all the best when you’re coming to D.C. hopefully you’re here soon and we can connect before I am off on my next thing.

Danny: Sorry, that is my best attempt at a record scratch noise.

Justin: This is present, day Justin, and I’m just going to interrupt myself here towards the end of the podcast with a few final things. We recorded this podcast back in March, and since then, a lot of, a lot of things have happened in the Peace Corps community, and they can seem very scary. There are a lot of voices talking about existential threats to the Peace Corps, and really questioning whether the Peace Corps will continue to exist. and I know that there are a lot of people really scared about that. I, in this moment, am choosing to be optimistic. I think that the Peace Corps will be protected by its legislation and the laws that form it. And so I do think Peace Corps will survive this moment. Will it look different? Might it be smaller?

Nicky: Yes.

Danny: That, as we’ve talked about on this podcast, may not necessarily be the worst thing for this organization in the long run. So I’m choosing to have hope, and I think we will see Peace Corps come out of all of this, in a good position, maybe in the long term. So that’s my thoughts on that.

Justin: The other thing I want to talk about is that the podcast is going to be changing hands. I haven’t really mentioned this before, but about a year ago, I became a foreign service officer with the State Department. And in that role, I’ll be going off on my first tour of duty. And when I’m not in America, I do not necessarily have the freedom to the luxury to speak, the way I do on this podcast and share my opinion so openly. And so, I’m going to be handing over the reins of the podcast to someone who will have that ability and who I know is just going to do such an amazing job hosting this show. So I am leaving this project in really good hands, and I’m excited for you all to meet your new host next month. So stay tuned for that. It has been an absolute pleasure to get this project started, to be with you all for these first six episodes. And I know that this project is going to continue to move forward. I know that it is going to continue to serve our community in sharing our stories and preparing the next generation of volunteers to go into service with more confidence and knowing what that’s going to look like like. So I’m incredibly proud of this project. I am so honored to have been a part of it, and I hope that you continue to enjoy it. if you like the things that are going on in our community, I really invite you to take a look at our website, www.lgbtqirpcv.org. if you have any questions, comments, want to join into the conversation, join the board, anything like that, please write to us@lgbtqirpcvmail.com and we would love to connect with you and to get you more involved in whatever way that looks like. Thank you so much again for listening and your support and being a part of this community and a part of this project. Thank you. Bye.