Volunqueers Ep 11: Edward van Luinen (Republic of Guinea, 1987-1989)

Lex: Hey, everyone. All right. Coming at you is Lex, and we’ve got another episode of Volunqueers. Today we’ve got Edward with us. And I’m going to give Edward the opportunity to introduce himself. So enjoy.

Edward: Hi, Lex, thank you very much for this opportunity to have this conversation. I’m really happy to be with you and with the wider valid queer community. Thank you very much. I’m Edward van Luinen, as you said. I’m a white cisgender gay male who empathizes with non-binary members of our community because I feel like I’m a non binary thinker and that’s part of just one of my superpowers, which I think is innovation. But anyway, more on that later. I’m just really happy to be here with you.

Lex: Awesome. Ah, we’re happy to have you. Thank you so much for participating today and we’re super excited to get this conversation going for our listeners.

Edward: Thank you.

Lex: All right, so first things first, because somehow I always forget to ask this. Where did you serve and when did you serve?

Edward: I was a Peace Corps volunteer in the Republic of Guinea in 1987. And I was a TEFL teacher and I was assigned to two high schools. And I have a funny story about that, if I can.

Lex: Oh, of course, of course.

Edward: Well, the first time, you know, I stood in front of a classroom of 40, what was, it maybe 10th or 11th graders, I had two overriding emotions. One was fear. Edward, these kids you’re talking. These kids are listening to you. Are you making any sense? If not, you better start making sense very quickly. And then after about a few months, I said to myself, I think I like this. I’m enjoying teaching. Which is, as you know, a positive thing. Cause if you don’t love your assignment in Peace Corps, you’re kind of in trouble. But it was a perfect fit for me. And fast forward to 35 years. I’m still doing what I love, Lex, which is helping leaders, teams and companies be better. And in between was just so grateful to be embraced by the Return Peace Corps volunteer community in many formats and environments and different friend relationships and service opportunities that I’m just so happy to be part of this, worldwide community, especially the volunteer community. So that’s my initial story of being a TEFL volunteer. For two years in Guinea. My secondary project was adult education. I taught English to adults in the afternoon. And then they all asked us. A group of, I think it was eight of us, seven women and myself, were asked to do a summer project. And I was a rural health assistant for the summer between academic years, for.

Lex: The teaching adults in the afternoon and for the rural summer program. Was that through Peace Corps or something that you were able to find outside of the Peace Corps community and just because you were a part of the school community?

Edward: It’s a great question. I just happened to become acquainted with several of the business leaders in the town. My town was Kisidougou, about 600 miles on the interior of Guinea. So it was on the border of the savannah and the rainforest. So I became familiar with some of the adults, business leaders, and we just. I don’t know how the idea came about. I said, well, why don’t I teach English in the afternoons, you know, after siesta, and after school was done in the morning. And we had a group of, I want to say, six or seven, and we met weekly, maybe even twice a week. And it was just a lot of fun. As you know, it’s a little different teaching adults and kids. Not that one’s better than worse than the other, but it was just a lot of fun. So to answer your question, it sort of just came out of the initial primary project for the rural health assistant. I and a few other, well, most of us actually in the group were trained by the United nations to diagnose and treat dehydration. And that was a United nations program where they gave us, two, three weeks of training in the capital. And we were deployed to different cities to, to just do. To diagnose dehydration and then provide their. Their treatment, which was a packet of sort of, what do you call, rehydration crystals Formula. Thank you. You know more than I do.

Lex: I drank so much ors, you have no idea. I wouldn’t have. I literally went into Peace Corps with electrolyte Gatorade flavor packets because they didn’t make all the electrolytes that they make now that you can get at Costco and whatnot. But I had Gatorade electrolyte packets. And then I would mix a bottle of the ORS packets that Peace Corps gave us, and I would literally just have one every day.

Edward: Well, you’re so smart to have done that. And so excellent. So you’re well familiar with that. But it was a different experience. But we felt like we were adding value in a health way, obviously, as we were adding value, hopefully in an education way. So all in all, just a really well rounded experience.

Lex: I love that I’m more. I’m. I have more curiosity towards the adults. Did they speak any English? And you were helping hone in on a wider range of vocabulary and like sentence structure and things like that, or writing possibly, or was it more so they had no fluency in English and you were really starting from square one.

Edward: Great question. I think that they were advanced beginner.

Lex: Okay.

Edward: I would put them at that level because one of the gentlemen ran the airline, National Airline office in the town. So he had some experience speaking English. But also, to answer your question, historically we were sort of Guinea 3. The first group of volunteers were the 1960s and they were agricultural volunteers. Then there was another group in the 70s and they were also, I believe, agricultural volunteers in the 80s. There was a group of foresters that went there in 1986, and we were the first group of TEFL in 87. So how that relates to your question is that there may have been some interaction not only with previous Peace Corps volunteers, whether or not they did informal conversations in English or not, that combined with the professions that the adults had exposed them to, English. So it was definitely advanced beginner and more of a focus on conversation, which they really enjoyed. And we were laughing. We had a lot of fun in that class. And it was just one of the highlights, I think, of my Peace Corps experience was that group.

Lex: It sounds like a lot of fun. I know anytime I hung out with some of the students from junior high or senior high, and I would talk about American food and they would tell me about Ghanaian food, but we were speaking in English. They always said I had such a funny accent, but to me, they had such a funny accent. So we would always just erupt in laughter. There was just always laughter in Ghana.

But another question for you. What is the national language in Guinea?

Edward: It’s a great question. And there are, I believe there are four. Oh, okay, four national languages. There’s one is Susu, and Susu is spoken by the most speakers that reside along the coastal areas of Guinea. The next official language is Pearl, which in French, Pearl, it’s English, it’s Fulani. And then the third one is Mandingo, I believe it’s in English. And in Mandingo it’s Maninka kung. And that is also the trade language, Maninka. And then, then there was French because it was a former French colony, of course. So I believe there were four national recognized languages. I don’t know if that’s changed. It’s been a while. But all of us, of course, as you know, from Peace Corps training, were trained in a lot of languages in addition to our tac, but so French, of course. I’d majored in French in college, so that I didn’t feel. And most of us had French in our group, so it helped us because then we could get into the national languages more.

Lex: Okay. I was going to say, which language did Peace Corps teach you all? But that’s helpful if the majority of you coming in as a cohort spoke French and then they just tacked on one of like the coastal region dialects or the trade dialect that you were describing.

Edward: Yeah, I think that we had a cross cultural trainer that came to our site. We were third country trained, so we were not trained in Guinea. We were trained in Senegal. However, they offered us incredible training. As you know, Peace Corps is incredibly technically brilliant in its training, not only in the work we were supposed to do, but also language and cross cultural, as you know. So that gentleman. Plus we also got language in, in Fulani. And Fulani also is, I would say a trade language, but Maninka as well. So we, we were able to get some great language training already. Even, third country trained.

Lex: Wow, I’ve not ever heard of that. That.

So you went from America to Senegal and then from there you went to your country.

Edward: Exactly.

Lex: So you did your pre service training in another country, like all of it?

Edward: Yes.

Lex: Oh, were you working with those Peace Corps volunteer or did that country even have Peace Corps volunteers at that time?

Edward: Yeah, Senegal had. Was probably one of the original, if not one of the earliest Peace Corps countries. So they had a well established cohort of trainers and a training site and curriculum and everything. So, you know, it seemed like it was, you know, not ideal, but however, it was lovely to get to know a whole other group of volunteers that were going to be remaining in Senegal.

Lex: Oh, that’s so fascinating. I feel like one of the best parts of pre service training was being immersed in Ghanaian culture, but kind of through the safety net of Peace Corps lens, but then going off to like counter shop or counterpart workshop. Excuse me. And then going to your actual site. It feels like I had like this incremental introduction to Ghana culture, food, language. But it sounds like. Or actually I don’t know because I have to ask. But did you go straight from your pre service training to then going to your host country and Then going to your site.

Edward: It’s a great question and I can absolutely relate how you’ve described the technical training experience with Peace Corps pre service training, because it is sort of a staging, but a comfortable area to learn everything we needed to do. But when we went to Guinea, we went to the capital and we, stayed there for a week. So that was to get to know the Peace Corps staff and country that had just started, you know, re establish itself obviously the previous year for the group of five foresters. But so it was orientation and meeting the folks in the office and the support. And then we were deployed, I believe, in two phases. Us eight volunteers were deployed, those that were in sort of the coastal and the middle of the country called the Futa Jalum. And then those of us in Upper Guinea and the forest region were deployed and dropped off in our sights.

Lex: And which group were you a part of?

Edward: So I was deployed, with the Upper Guinea and the forest volunteers. And there were, I believe, four of us that were deployed together.

Lex: Oh, wow. Oh, that’s very interesting. Did you feel as though you had a new settlement feeling going to your site, or did you feel the shift from going from Senegal to the capital of Guinea to then your site was, that kind of slow introduction that you needed to your host country, or did it still all just feel like a shock?

Edward: Well, I feel that it was a beautiful surprise and a delight because you could not have potentially a more different topographically, geographically, different weather, different food, different country than Senegal and Guinea. So when we landed in Conakry, it was to tropics. Mangoes the size of fitting in your palm, ginormous mangoes, pineapples, avocados. I mean, bananas. Whereas the, agriculture is quite different in Senegal. More drier types of fruits and vegetables.

Lex: Did they have two seasons? Did they have a rainy season and a dry, season, or did they.

Edward: Mostly just have one season in Senegal and Guinea? Both. But however, the rainy season, since it was further south and included, was closer to the equator and at the time had more rainforest in it. The rain was much longer in the rainy season. So to answer your question, we were just thrilled because it was different enough. But also it’s like we had landed where we had prepared to be. So we were just elated to be there. And also it’s very verdant. So I have never seen so many different shades of green in my life. And it was gorgeous. And I remember that vividly being dropped off, ah. And driven to the site, which was. It was just breathtakingly Beautiful.

Lex: I hear you. Ah, yeah. Memories.

Edward: Was it similar in Ghana?

Lex: It was. Not that it was breathtaking, but it was breathtaking to me, to have the opportunity to know that I was going to live there. I had been fortunate enough to, to travel to other countries prior to Ghana, and the longest I stayed in a country was like a month or two. And so knowing that I was going to live there, immerse myself, like with the people there, I don’t know, that gave it like a new excitement. So for me, everything I saw, everything I touched was something I just fell in love with. Even though maybe someone coming from America without the desire of wanting to do Peace Corps, but instead wanting to go as a tourist to a country would find kind of the flaws, if that makes sense.

Edward: It does. I think what you’re talking about in my experience too is there’s a permanence and you and a commitment to succeeding because we’re there for two years. So that desire to, to learn and just absorb and have it hopefully be a positive impact on our service. I absolutely can relate with what you shared.

Lex: Speaking of learning, how did you learn about the Peace Corps back in the 80s? What was. What is that like?

Edward: Well, thanks for asking. I was a French major in my Midwestern liberal arts College in the 80s, and I had such a great time in college, intellectually, socially, and I loved majoring in French. But I didn’t spend a year abroad in France, as most language students do, and I minored in political science. And I thought, I want to be a diplomat. So that was my career goal. So I left the library at, closing time. It was nine or ten o’ clock one night in the. It must have been, you know, maybe April or May of the final semester. And there was a Peace Corps recruiter at the table in the evening, and it was 9 or 10 o’. Clock. This is interesting. Oh, I had wanted to go overseas. Here’s a Peace Corps recruiter right in front of me. So we talked. I can’t remember what the conversation was, but I just learned that there’s education opportunities, teaching opportunities. I thought, okay, political science, French. I don’t know much about teaching, but I was a tutor at the time in the French department. So I thought, okay, this seems like a natural progression. So the recruiter and I obviously, you know, they encouraged me to apply and I did, and, and that got it started.

Lex: I’ve heard some stories for folks who applied back then. Did you have to do a paper application?

Edward: Yes.

Lex: Oh, gosh. What was that like?

Edward: Well, it was, gosh, you know, at the time it didn’t seem different because we were doing a lot of things on paper. We were typing our university papers on a typewriter. And at the time, you’re talking to kind of a dinosaur here, Lex. But it didn’t seem too strange. But, but yeah, that, that got the whole application process started.

Lex: Wow. and so just like that one night in the library talking to a recruiter, you said to yourself, I’m going to do this.

Edward: Yes. And there was a parallel track that I was on. At the same time, my professor, French professor at the university, had secured for me a master’s, a teaching assistant position at Michigan State University where I would teach French while getting my master’s in French literature. So I was kind of conflicted. I said, okay, do I go the master’s of French literature route and become an academic or do I do Peace Corps? So I thought about it and I did apply and. But then I thought, okay. I said, oh, I think I should go the French master’s route, teaching assistant route. And then right before I started, was going to start Michigan State, I want to say, two weeks before, I said, I don’t want to do this. So I called the recruiter and they said, you know, you didn’t follow up or, you chose a different path. You now have to wait an entire academic year because we could have gotten you into a teaching volunteer position. And they said, I’m sorry, you’ve got to wait. Are you willing to wait? I said, yes. So that. Because that then required a commitment on my part. I understand. Because I kind of had told them kind of no first. So then that meant that I got a full time job waiting and lived in the city where I graduated from. Waiting for the full round application process to go through.

Lex: Wow. Super side tangent. But are you from Michigan?

Edward: Yes.

Lex: Oh, okay. Love that. I’m not from Michigan, but I’m very aware of the mitten. And I have been told to say, go Spartans for Michigan State. One of my best friends from Peace Corps, he was born and raised in Michigan and he lands. He lives like over here in the mitten, which I think is like near Grand Rapids area. Caledonia, I think is where he grew up. And yeah, he went to Michigan State University.

Edward: So, yeah, neat. I went to Calvin College, which was in Grand Rapids. So I. Caledonia is a town I know in that area. Yes, It’s a beautiful state.

Lex: Shout out to Matt if you’re listening.

Edward: There you go. Yes.

Lex: Yeah. But he served with me in Ghana and now he’s currently living in my old apartment, which I love.

Edward: Excellent, excellent.

and what was your area of service?

Lex: So I was a health volunteer. Very quick snippet. Health volunteer. Got evacuated from my first site due to several unrest in Burkina Faso. So then I became a agricultural volunteer and then in the very like last three months of Peace Corps, before the COVID evacuation, I was just doing pcbt. So I was the Peace Corps trainer for the new cohort coming in as health volunteers.

Edward: Excellent. Did you enjoy it?

Lex: I did. So I had a really like, wide breadth of experiences from everything from like doing girls clubs to working at the CHIPS clinic and just helping the nurses do charting all the way to working with the local government and regional government officials and helping do like water and sanitation and then like literally starting a new NGO from the ground up with a, Ghanaian man. And we did yam seedlings and we made, we essentially made a Bio 4 to 4 biofortified yam for drought season. Since the rainy season was becoming more unpredictable in Ghana and the northern regions, all rely on the rainy season to basically feed themselves, their family, and also be able to sell the rest of their product for the cash that they need to then redo the crops for the next year. But we were having so many issues with that that we partnered with a Nigerian scientist and we’re making a yam that was just more drought resistant essentially. So I love that. yeah, I was all over the place. I had some crazy experience.

Edward: But that sounds like a great innovation and an incredible product that was useful.

Lex: Yeah, I still, I always check up on the website since I was such a huge part of that organization and I’m like, oh, they’ve got yam still. And, I always check in with the people still working there. One of the first women that I hire, she’s, I think the farm manager now. So she actually took my job after. It’s, I guess it’s been seven years now. Oh my gosh. That’s crazy to think about. So, yeah, I think just very cool. It was nice to know that I actually created something that had sustainability because I feel as though that is always a huge critique of some of the people that do Peace Corps is that, oh, like I’m just going to get this grant for a latrine project, but if you don’t do the behavioral change processes that go with it, which can honestly take your whole two years of service, and then maybe that second volunteer that goes to your site should really be doing the project, you kind of lose that sustainability aspect. If not, everybody has their own stake in it, if that makes sense.

Edward: Oh, it absolutely does. And I agree with you. Sustainability is a key metric for the Peace Corps and Peace Corps volunteers, not only in a presence, but in a, technical capacity and also the values and that we are learning, but also sharing and community building. So I absolutely agree with you.

Lex: Yeah, so Peace Corps, we all have our stories, but I would like to do a hard pivot and segue into being an LGBTQ person. I don’t know if you identify with the word gay, but as a gay man applying to Peace Corps, were you at that time, in 87 or I guess 86, when you were really in the application process, were you out to yourself? Were you out to your family? What did that look like? Did you know going into Peace Corps that you would have some type of safety, or did you think nothing of it?

Edward: Thank you for asking that. I was. I knew I was different. I knew I was special. I knew that I wasn’t straight. I didn’t know fully what I was, but I had a pretty good idea. So I was closeted, and I was closeted through the application process. There weren’t any type of questions, as I recall, about how we as a community self identify at that time. And I was also closeted through the whole experience, actually, pre service training and through volunteer service. And I want to say something about that. While that was a very different era, I feel that there was an unspoken awareness, an unspoken empathy of everyone I was interacting with. And I don’t know if that was the Peace Corps recruiter or the pre service training colleagues or the seven women that I was in my group with. And how that shows up is if Edward is not talking about heterosexual dating or heterosexual dating during priest service training or during the Peace Corps. That may tell me something. And I feel that I felt supported without maybe even realizing it, or that they realizing they would be supporting me or that I needed that level of support as I evolved as a future out gay person.

Lex: I always find it really beautiful when people within our community have this awakening moment where they see themselves for the first time. And there’s always a pro and a con to that type of situation. Because as you said, you were closeted prior to Peace Corps, during Peace Corps, but as you kind of said earlier, how you were on that parallel track with your master’s program, and I feel like there was almost a parallel track with Peace Corps where personally, I felt I had so much time to sit with myself, because in Western society, it’s like, go but in Ghana, for me personally, it was a very slow paced environment. There was never something was burning or on fire and we need to handle it. Like right now, it was just, okay, we’re gonna get there. When we get there, we’re still going to do our job. We’ll save everybody from the burning building, but we don’t need to create havoc over the situation. And I feel as though you were on this parallel journey with your identity while going through your service and had that support of everyone around you. But unspoken, if that makes any sense to you.

Edward: It does. And thank you for beautifully articulating that. I feel that we are on parallel journeys, whether we are. Who, whoever we are in the volunqueer community. We’re on many parallel journeys, but the Peace Corps one, you’re absolutely right. Because we were on a journey personally, professionally, socially, psychologically, cross culturally on so many levels. Question is, in our community is our experience living in many different environments a gift? I feel that wherever we are on a journey, if we’re out proud, hopefully we all are. And helping those who want to be out and proud on their journey. But when we go into Peace Corps, we are asked to learn, identify values, inspect our values, their values respond to their values and our values learn. And the act of doing so is so critical and important and helped me ultimately come out. I had to do it in the Peace Corps. Wow. These. This value system is very different from the one I grew up on. Which ones do I like and want to embrace and amplify? Which ones I don’t understand, but I still will respect even though I don’t understand. I will not judge. I will, even though it’s different from what I believe it’s different. But I will respect it, not negatively judge it, and then do the best I can and integrate and assimilate as a volunteer. The act that we did that as volunteers either reinforces being out already or. Or helps those that want to come out. M. And that certainly helped me.

Lex: I think everybody has their own journey, obviously with coming out, but I feel personally almost as if Peace Corps was the motivator that you needed to accept yourself. And I think that’s what’s beautiful. And I feel as though a lot of people in that situation that do go into Peace Corps as a queer person without necessarily knowing that they’re a queer person. And having that whole experience and then coming out and knowing who they are, it gives a version of confidence that I just feel almost like we can’t attain in the United States because of so many societal pressures, familial pressures, academic pressures. There’s something about just being with yourself and only yourself to really think about who you are and who you want to be and how you want to show up in this world. And so while personally, I was out as a lesbian at the time that I had started service, like, a, couple, like, three years prior to my service, I had never questioned my gender, but Peace Corps gave me the space to finally do that because I wasn’t afraid of, like, what my parents would think. I wasn’t afraid of what my friends or community would think. Like, all I was thinking about was myself, my own brain and mental health and my body, and what did that really mean to me, and how did I want to show up in my skin every day? And I love hearing these stories because it’s been so transformative just hearing people talk about those experiences, but also knowing that I’m not the only one that’s having them. Like, I had a really good friend who also was in Peace Corps. I received my top surgery after my Peace Corps. That was really, like, the aha moment. That Peace Corps made me realize that I didn’t identify with parts of my body, and I really had to figure that out. But I somehow didn’t realize while I was going through my journey, I was inspiring my own friends in the community who had done Peace Corps and those who also had not done Peace Corps. So I remember getting my top surgery, and, like, four friends kind of out of the woodworks when I got my surgery were like, I’m also going to be getting top surgery in a couple of years. And, like, oh, my gosh, you inspired me. And I couldn’t believe the, response I had been given, because you are telling yourself all these negative things that you’re going to be perceived so negatively. And this is such a, controversial topic. And it’s a. Honestly, a topic of discomfort for a lot of people because they just don’t understand. And I didn’t realize that I was helping anyone by sharing my story. You were just kind of figuring out who Edward was, but you had the space to do it safely, which everyone always finds so hysterical, because most of the countries that people served in Africa or, parts of Asia back in those times, it was not safe to be a queer person, as it was not safe to be an LGBTQ person either in America. But there was this sense of self that you gained, and I feel like you gained that, and I think that’s beautiful.

Edward: Thank you. And thanks for sharing your story. If you think about it, and I agree a hundred percent, when you are in your country of service, depending on what it is that country and many countries around the world, I’d say most have many expressions of sexuality, gender, and gender expression, which serve also as inspiration for those of us on our journey, wherever we are on our journey. So I feel that the external environment, depending again on where we served, can be incredibly encouraging and motivational, inspiring to keep us on our journey. Second, I agree with you too. As a gift to have that time where we all worked, a lot in Peace Corps, it is the toughest job you ever love. That advertising campaign is accurate and one of the most accurate, but not just the job of what we were asked to do, the job of adding value, creating bridges, understanding others as we understand ourselves. And I feel that time was a gift to work on ourselves, as you have beautifully said. The third thing you said that is also very inspiring is we inspire each other with our courage and stories, and we stand on the shoulders of those LGBTQIA giants who came before us. And what do we, as future giants, can do to help those that need to go after us. So we are all part of a beautiful worldwide family.

Lex: Speaking of family, did you have any opportunity to get close to a host country, national that felt like family to you while you were in service and or other volunteers?

Edward: Yes, absolutely. And that added an incredible dimension to the experience. I had a fellow teacher at the high school where I taught invited me initially just to have meals with him and his family. And that was the evening meal, which was actually helpful on a number of levels because, a, I wasn’t that great with Peace Corps cooking. And I know you know what that means, right? Gosh, what were we going to do tonight? So it practically, it was incredibly helpful. However, he also became one of my language teacher in Maninka Mandingo, so I got lessons there, but then also became very acquainted and extremely close friends with his, his spouse and, and their three kids. So it was also social and cultural and just community building and incredible learning experience, too, because I could sometimes use him as a cultural translator. I said, okay, this happened to me. What does this mean? And because he was a teacher and part, of that educated civil service cadre, he could explain also things cross cultural to me, which was very helpful. But, yes, very close to that family. And that was probably one of the best things that happened during service. How about you?

Lex: I definitely got close with a lot of the people I lived with in Upper West, so it was very devastating for me when I got evacuated from my first site and I had put so much into learning that language. Ugh. I learned agari up there, but I actually kept in contact with all of them when I moved to Tamale after the evacuation. And a few of the gentlemen that had cars actually would come and visit me every, like, two months or so. And so that was always lovely because I’d have them come over to my place and make them an American meal and they’d take me out to dinner in Tomalay. And I just had such really good relationships in Peace Corps with host country Nationals and with people in my cohort. And also a lot of expats, too. I don’t know if there’s any expats living in your country at the time, but I got. Yeah, there was a lot of people in Ghana.

Edward: Yes. Well, it’s a major destination for Peace Corps. Yes. I mean, country of service, right?

Lex: Yeah, we were the first one of the first three countries opened in 1961. That’s our pride and glory, huh?

Edward: What a legacy. What a legacy. Yeah, my. Our cohort was also very close, even though we were maybe at minimum 4 hours taxi ride apart from each other. So we were very close. In fact, we have still regular zooms. And I’ve had every 10 year physical reunions together. I love that we’re very close. And as you know, the bond of Peace Corps volunteers, basically unbreakable. So, yeah, we’re very close. And it was. That was added, another lovely dimension. Expats there were. There were French expats who also were doing their sort of, if they had optional military service that was instead of civil service, if they didn’t want to do military service in the French military. So I got to know some of those folks. And then the expats were mostly in the capital, which was, you know, nice. But I would say primarily host family, local friends that were there in my city. And then I would say the cohort.

Lex: I love that you have physical reunions. That’s so great.

Edward: Yes. And regular zooms. I would say we do. I want to say 3, 4 zooms and include our A, P, C, D.

Lex: S. Oh, my gosh. That’s incredible.

Edward: It is fun. It is fun and we help each other. And just more than that, just see, where we all are in our journey.

Lex: Peace, Corps. I swear, you can meet somebody in the airport and they can see your little Peace Corps patch, and they’re like, where did you serve? And you’re just, oh, I served. And the next thing you know you’ve had a beer together and. Or drink of choice if you don’t drink some fruit punch, whatever, and you’ve talked for five hours.

Edward: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And substantive, because you don’t have to deal with so many immediate opening conversational points because you can get to the substantive, fun stuff right away.

Lex: I love not having to explain any of the acronyms to an rpcv. They just get it. They just get it. Yes, because we know Peace Corps loves their acronyms. Oh, my gosh.

Edward: Yes.

Lex: But in terms of volunteering, I love the family that you got close to and also the practicality aspect of having dinner, which is important.

Did you have any moments as a volunteer with your daytime students, evening adult students, or during the rural summer program that you did that just really stood out for you or is one of your greatest accomplishments or fondest memories?

Edward: Thank you for asking that. I have many, but one stands out. I had we all, to varying degrees or not, may have met expatriates to your earlier question, and they may have been in the embassy, but there was at the time the U.S. information Agency operating from the embassy in Conakry, the capital. Well, resourcefulness, like most of us Peace Corps volunteers, is a skill that’s way up there. And I became acquainted with the, the person that was running the USIA there at the embassy, and she had encyclopedias in English, and they were pictorial encyclopedias in English. And I said, may I have seven copies of those? So at the end of two years of my adult learning class, I had a party at my house, an afternoon sort of tea and goody party. And I gifted each adult student those photographic pictorial encyclopedias in English. And they looked at their gifts and no one said anything for about. An uncomfortable silence in the United States is three seconds, but there it must have been three minutes. Finally, I asked one of the adult students, I says, are you. Is this okay? Is everything all right? And he said, we’re stunned because you have given us a treasure that we never thought we would get. And I just, I get chills remembering conversation. And I feel that the bond that we have and that Peace Corps has allowed us to have and hopefully will continue forever are embodied in a conversation like that. And that was an, incredibly powerful, emotionally validating moment for me.

Lex: Absolutely. I feel a lot of those moments similar to what you’re expressing. I cherish so much more now as I’ve gotten older, but also from my experiences abroad with host country nationals versus people in the United States, because I feel as though a gift in America is almost expected. Like, you’re having a child. Let’s get something off the registry. You’re having a wedding. Let’s get something off the wedding registry. Let’s have a bridal shower party. This, that, a birthday party. But it’s those moments like you’re describing that are just so simple. And the gift may not be monetarily valuable, but to someone else, it’s priceless. And I always feel that those are always the best gifts. When you can give something to someone, that’s priceless.

Edward: Yes, yes. And with no expectation of return gift. To your point, you know, oh, I gave someone else something at a shower gift. I better do the same thing or someone’s got to do it to me. If they don’t, why don’t. It’s so transactional. I think we talked about that word earlier, but this is beyond that. I feel the values that we all share as human beings and how that shows up in our intercultural interactions are very beautiful and long lasting and powerful. And who knows if they looked at it or not or it helped them in their career. That wasn’t the point. But I just wanted to honor the investment that they made in learning and building the relationship with me. And it was a special moment.

Lex: That’s beautiful. I’m happy that you had that moment and that you get to share it with me today.

Edward: Happy to.

Lex: So, pivoting in another direction, what do you think from everything we’ve discussed, your own life experiences, your time in Peace Corps, what do you really think you learned during your Peace Corps service?

Edward: Many things. I think that the primary thing I learned is that when I am, privileged to experience a new and, a completely new situation, that out of respect and curiosity and to honor that new environment, I have a duty to reflect, respect, honor that culture, and see how it fits in with my culture. And if I don’t understand something, it doesn’t make it wrong. It just makes it different. And I feel that in our judgment, horrific environment these days, that gift that I experienced and try to keep going in myself is that I honor and respect those that are different and they’re not wrong. they’re just different. But there’s plenty that’s also similar and beautiful among everyone in our world. And I feel that’s an important lesson too. And I hope that Peace Corps again stays relevant and able to provide the similar experience to future generations of volunteers. And that experience is transferred to many others that we come in contact with as Return Peace Corps volunteers. That was the greatest lesson do you.

Lex: Have any advice for someone who wants to serve in your country of service?

Edward: Well, you’re going to have the best mangoes, pineapple and avocado you’ve ever had in your life. So, yes, if you like one, two or three of the, not to mention the rice. The rice, locally cultivated rice is the best I’ve ever had.

Lex: Wow.

Edward: It is aromatic. It is incredible rice. So culinarily, if there’s any foodies out there that also want to be Peace Corps volunteers, Guinea is absolutely the country to go. But my advice is that you have even an ill formed thought or an idea that this is kind of who you are or who you want to be and enough aligns with the job you’re going to do, maybe the geography, the language you’re going to learn, the people you might meet, the adventure, some spirit that you may have. If there’s just an inkling of some of those things, go for it. You will be rewarded beyond measure. As so many of us, what hundreds of thousands of return Peace Corps volunteers have been, you will be rewarded as well. Some ways known, but some ways that you may never know. But, Lex, as you and I know and hundreds of thousands of other people know, we have been richly rewarded.

Lex: It’s true. I feel rich in friendship. When my wife and I had our wedding, and I think it was something like 26 out of the 35 people in my cohort were able to come to the wedding.

Edward: Beautiful.

Lex: It was just one of those moments where you’re like, only Peace Corps people get it.

Edward: Beautiful.

Lex: And it was so nice to see everyone and so nice for them all to see each other. And basically all the Peace Corps weddings that we’ve had have been the reunions. And we’ve had one consistently every two years. So it’s been great. I’ve seen everybody over the last seven years. Retien.

Edward: I love that you pair it with a family celebration. That is a reunion. That’s a lovely idea. And thought of that.

Lex: Well, who else would I want at my wedding other than my Peace Corps friends? I, mean, yes. And they also saw the. The literal birth of my wife and I’s relationship since we started in Peace Corps. So so many of them were privy to like the. Oh, did you hear about. Oh, lexing. Oh, Liz thinks, the. Like, you know, and they were always cheering us on and wishing us the best. So it was really cool that six years later they got to celebrate us.

Edward: Yes. Your angels were with you.

Lex: Yeah.

Edward: Beautiful. Lovely.

Lex: So you expressed a little bit about your career at the very beginning. And I’d love to just come full circle. And I don’t know if you had something where Peace Corps influenced your career, but you had mentioned that you were interested in becoming a diplomat, but now I believe you’re doing something, related to HR consulting and you own your own business. So how did Peace Corps play a role in all of that? Where did the diplomat career path go for you or drop off or maybe it did happen and I’m just not aware. And where did the HR and bringing leaders of today and lifting them up to teach others to be better? Where does all of that come into play from your Peace Corps experience?

Edward: Well, Peace Corps was a hundred percent foundational to the career that I have today. And that’s another incredible blessing that I have from the Peace Corps experience. I really fell in love with teaching as a result of working with the adults and also the high schoolers. And when you’re a language major, you’re always sometimes looking for another discipline or technical area to partner with. French or what do I partner my language skills with? And teaching was an excellent partner technical skill to have. So much so that when I came back from my service, I was a Peace Corps fellow at Columbia University Teachers College and got my master’s in TESOL while teaching in the New York City public schools, which had many parallels actually, to a Peace Corps experience. And I won’t go to describe those in too much detail, however. And then I realized, you know, I wanted to, to expand my career to go into corporate training. So corporate training was the pivot from teaching. And that’s where I began my career in the mid-90s at Avon Cosmetics. Avon Products, the, company for women that does the cosmetics, as you know. So, and that was the start of my career. And then I worked for a success of other Fortune 500 companies in corporate training, organization development, talent acquisition. And then seven years ago, decided to launch my own human resources consulting company, Global Talent Builders. And I’m a worldwide recruiting change and workforce development company. I work out of my home here in Pasadena and blessed to offer clients worldwide everything that I did for working with companies Avon and Sony and Heineken and Disney. And I’m just privileged to be an entrepreneur again on skill that was able to be developed in Peace Corps because all of us at some level were entrepreneurs and incredibly resourceful. So that’s a long answer to your lovely and kind question that Peace Corps was foundational to the successful and grateful career that I have today.

Lex: Wow. I feel like I haven’t Heard that type of a segue into career from Peace Corps. But honestly, that makes a lot of sense considering we are all little entrepreneurs, especially when we’re having to learn how to write our own grant, be the project manager of a potential grant during service, leading the project, making it happen, and seeing it all the way through. I just remember always thinking to myself when I was working on different projects, wow, I am very capable of a lot of things that I did not think I was capable of because I guess in my mindset at least, I always thought I had to be taught these skills through, academia. But some of the best training you’ll ever get or skills you’ll ever get in your life are literally called on, the job training for a reason. And I felt like Peace Corps, the 27 months you’re there is really just on the job training for the rest of your life. And so many skills you take from that can be applied into any field that you want it to go to.

Edward: That’s an incredible insight. I agree with you 100%. So imagine doing your and succeeding in your technical role at a Peace Corps site now. And also add the intercultural how do I understand someone else who speaks a different language? How do I determine the meaning from this conversation? How do I make this technical project work? And I’ve always said that intercultural skills, if and because Peace Corps volunteers have succeeded, can be successful in any professional endeavor. Because when you are successful in the intercultural aspect of doing the technical job, you can do solve any problem. You really can. So I agree with you 100%. And that is life training in two years that pays dividends and not, I’m just talking. I’m not talking about m. Money dividends as you know, about human dividends that are. That last a lifetime. So I agree with you.

Lex: I’ve had a lovely conversation today.

Edward: Edward, same here.

Lex: Do you have anything else that I haven’t asked, haven’t touched upon? This is your opportunity to say and speak freely about anything. Any stories you’d like to add? Is there anything at all you’d like the Volunqueer community to know?

Edward: I’m absolutely thrilled to have had this conversation. Thank you for everything and everything you do for the community. I’m just so thrilled and happy and just grateful. And I would just say, listeners, please reach out and also tell your story if you’re inspired, because I did the same thing. I listened to a couple stories. I thought this would be really fun and you’ll have a lovely time speaking with Lex So I encourage everyone to raise your hand and talk to Lex and share more stories.

Lex: Thank you. I appreciate that. I try my best and, I have a blast talking to everybody that I get the opportunity to interview. Edward, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for your vulnerability. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for reaching out to us to be on the show. I love when I don’t have to cold email a whole bunch of RPCVs and they actually reach out to us. It makes my job easier and more fun because I know that they actually want to come and speak with me. I had so much fun today and I really appreciate everything you do. I wish you the best in your career and I hope you have 29 more years of love with your husband.

Edward: Oh, thank you. Thank you, Lex. This has been really fun and likewise, congratulations. I hope you and your wife have health and happiness and vitality for a long time.

Lex: Thank you everybody for listening. We super appreciate it. If you are enjoying or interested in delving deeper into our community, please visit our website. It is www.lgbtqirpcv.org. that’s a lot of letters, so I’ll say it again. It’s www.lgbtqirpcv.org. you can also reach out with any questions via email and connect with an RPCV or find others. Our email address is lgbtqirpcvmail.com and we look forward to hearing from you and sharing more stories in the future. Thank you so much for being our guest today. We super appreciate it. And everybody, I hope that you enjoyed listening.